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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
243
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you can magically solve how Me selling Item X in station A magically appears in Station B where buyer Z in eve then we'd have market already... well that and UI work for console, eve market is something not for the faint of heart of a pure ds3 controller.
There are MANY ways to do it and if this is really the only stupid thing that is holding it up, the both the CPM and CCP have utterly failed! Here, let me make some up on the fly right now as I type:
1 - Make it so that only specific stations in EVE (the ones linked to starting systems for DUST players since DUST players have ALWAYS started in their quarters with a LOCAL CHAT that they have no clue WTF is it for...) can sell the DUST items to and from DUST/EVE. Only in those locations will the markets DIRECTLY connect. Then have everyone in DUST able to use those markets based upon the local they are in. EVE players can then buy/sell/trade DUST items anywhere, but only sell them to DUST players in those DUST Market Hubs. Dust players will also need a way to "equalize" these markets when they can (ie, 2 guys in same squad but different local markets, one has ARs for sale, but other is out of stock on the market) by being allowed to directly TRADE dust only items with each other within dust. This would also encourage EVE pilots to actually travel to DUST territories.
2 - This probably won't happen as it'll drag down and cause too much lag to do... While in EVE every station and region is separated into different market locations. In DUST just combine them all (for DUST only items) and let the DUST players order from anywhere as if they were everywhere. Building the list of market items for this method would be the lynchpin and probably lag too much.
3 - Let DUST players see the regional market just like every EVE player does complete with number of systems that the equipment may be in distance from their current home system. If they buy something off market that is in their current station, then they get it immediately. If they buy something off market in the same solar system, then they get it in like 30 seconds. If they buy something off market that is 1 or more jumps in distance from them, then it they don't get it for 2 minutes per jump in distance. So if you buy a tank that is 10 jumps away, it won't show up in your equipment for 20 minutes. Again, a way for DUST players to trade amongst themselves would be beneficial and may also be delayed by the 2 minutes/jump factor if needed. (NOTE: Don't forget that a player could order a bunch of **** that is many minutes away and then log off or loose connection. Still have this **** delivered even if they are offline.)
4 - If you must have EVE players doing the deliveries, then work it out in two ways. First, start adding in NPC agent courier missions that tell the EVE players to buy "a" off market (or trade for it or get it anywhere even if they make it themselves) and deliver it to "y' location. Then for every successful mission of this type, the EVE pilot makes some ISK, gets standing points for his NPC corp, and the DUST items are automatically posted on the local market by the NPC for the DUST players to buy. Second way is to let EVE players have a "MARKET NEEDS" selection option in the map. This would highlight all stations in EVE that needed DUST items delivered to them. Then it would be up to the EVE players to decide upon how to supply that demand and at what price etc.
5 - Create a new "sub-market" called PLANETARY SALES or something like that for the EVE players. it would be a new market tab that the EVE players can go to in EVE. This new market would not be separated by location like everything else it. Instead an EVE player puts something up for sale on the Planetary Market and it becomes available to anyone in DUST as well as anyone in EVE that is also viewing the same market. Similarly for DUST players selling stuff, it would show up on the Planetary Market for other Dust and EVE players to buy. The only issue with this method is that some scheming EVE players somewhere would figure out that they could "transport" raw materials from point A to point B (across the universe) by making tanks in DUST and selling them to an all via the Planetary Market. So this would have negative effects to EVE unless reprocessing of DUST items is made to be unprofitable.
6 - Create a "travel" system for the DUST players to be able to travel to where the items are at. This could either be provided by an NPC corp like InterBus or by EVE players or both. The way it would work is a DUST player needs items from another market location. So they hire InterBus to transport them there. This would have to be time-limited in some way like only allow it once every hour. This would mean that if a DUST merc needed something from Jita, then they travel there and buy it, then they would have to wait to travel back to to the next market hub where they would need to buy/sell something. Making it an hour to do so, still puts the advantage to the EVE players to fulfill the market. Another way to travel would be via CONTRACT. A DUST player creates a MOVE ME contract in DUST which turns into a kinda of small package contract in EVE. The EVE pilot has no way to know who or what he's transporting. It's up to the DUST player to put a value on his transport (higher ISK would probably get fulfilled faster etc.) Then the contract is submitted to the system. DUST player can log off or stay online and chat (but unable to start matches). Once the EVE pilot completes the transport, he gets paid and DUST merc is now in new location. If transport contract timer runs out, then DUST guy never gets moved, but doesn't loose any ISK either. If move contract is accepted and fails, then DUST merc gets the collateral paid by the EVE pilot for accepting the contract and failing.
(to be continued on next message)
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
243
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
(continued from previous posting above)
In any case, if a locationally based system is used, then there should also be a way to transport mercs to those locations. This bring about the problem that the DUST mercs will try to "congregate" at popular market hubs like Jita. But to counter that, only allow them to accept contracts from DUST hubs like the home systems that they are in currently. This way they only "go to market" to buy and sell and have to return to low-sec space to fight. |
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
246
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:There's a lot of non-trivial components to that solution, which is why we don't have it yet.
I know it's non-trivial. I also stated that all those possible solutions were ones that I thought up in 5 minutes time. If that's just five minutes, what has CCP been doing for the last few months?
That was my point.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
247
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Posted - 2013.12.17 18:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you can magically solve how Me selling Item X in station A magically appears in Station B where buyer Z in eve then we'd have market already... well that and UI work for console, eve market is something not for the faint of heart of a pure ds3 controller. I can explain that quite simply: Everything we own is digital. We clone jump to a battle half the galaxy away and produce our weapons and modules out of nanites based on our digital ownership (BPO or BPC). Our gear doesn't magically appear on planet from some central depot. So a player market is simply a digital market place. I put up a BPC for sale and you buy it. You wire me your ISK and I wire you my BPC. Simple.
That idea fails when you consider salvage. How do I sell or trade salvage if everything we own is just "digital" when we "travel" in your scheme?
NOPE, gotta have the physical aspect at some point and CCP needs to fully integrate that soonGäó or things will get even more kludgey than they are now.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
247
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Posted - 2013.12.17 18:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Skihids wrote:Yes, you could assume a huge cache of every possible weapon, dropsuit, vehicle, and module on the war barge, but how does that get onto the battlefield when I walk out of a CRU or change fits at a SD? I assume the CRUs operate similarly to uplinks. Otherwise, there is no possible explanation for it being able to spew out all the mercs it does over the course of a match. SD is harder to explain. However, if we are able to create all of our gear using nanites, manufacturing becomes trivial. What are the Eve pilots going to produce? Nanites? Then how do they get the BPCs for our gear? Exchange a certain amount of nanites for a BPC? Then why bother with BPCs? Why not just sell nanite credits? Replace the entire market system with a nanite market so you only stock up on nanites and pay a nanite price for your gear as you spawn.
Wrong on both points. In beta CRU's were these huge box shaped thingy's with doors on them big enough for mercs to walk out of (but never opened). With the current CRU's I'm assuming the devs decided that it could be anything not worry about the size anymore... besides, who knows how deep into the ground those things go.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
247
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Posted - 2013.12.17 18:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:That is exactly what I'm saying. If I fly in Eve to the solar system you're in when you talk in local, I can still see you there when you deploy into a battle. And I can talk to you as if you're still there. We're part of New Eden now but they haven't worked out how we're going to move around without space ships, so they kludged it by making us stay in one system all the time. The battles don't happen on the same server as Eve so it works from a technical perspective.
It's confusing and not the way you would expect it to be, but it gets the job done. Yes we are in the same place when you fly in because we clone jumped there. Then when you fly in to the next battle several systems away we are there because we clone jumped. The thing is we can't take physical gear with us when we jump.
You are wrong and Kristoff is right. Currently DUST mercs NEVER ACTUALLY LEAVE their home system as far as the EVE Tranquility Server is concerned. And since that is the host of the EVE Universe, that includes our asses too.
The "Local Chat" is a thing ported over from EVE Online. Think of it like an IRC chat channel that is associated with a room in a house. When you move into the living room, it changes to be everyone that is in the living room. When you leave the living room to go to the kitchen, the local chat logs off the living room and logs onto the kitchen. Similarly for systems in EVE and DUST. However since CCP has yet to implement a way for mercs to travel through space in EVE, we are ALWAYS stuck in the same merc quarters in the same station in the same system.
A way of transit for mercs to go from station to station (with all their possessions) must be implemented. And not including vehicles, a merc with all their stuff can fit into a small cargo container in EVE terms. Hell the most you might need would be a Large Cargo Container if you do have lots of vehicles. In either case, it's somewhat trivial for an EVE pilot that does shipping to transport such things, if they so choose to do so. Which is why an NPC system of transit need to be implemented.
Maybe something based on distance etc. Have an NPC corp like InterBus Shipping do it where it cost X ISk per lightyear of distance times y volume of cargo. Then add in 5 minutes of travel for every lightyear as well. Walla! We now have merc transit. Hell you could cue up the transit, pay for it, log off for however long it takes and then come back to being int the new station.
The only issue would be preventing all the mercs in the universe from congregating in one location. So you make it such that they have to be in low-sec and then in the same region to accept contracts in that region. Then you don't end up with mercs stuck in Jita trying to buy/sell/trade all the damn time. This would also have the added benefit that if your faction in FW is loosing in one region, then you go to another region where they are winning instead, just like in EVE.
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